Everything that affects Rvers, in one way or another, has a bearing on someone else. Whether it is a product or distributor, a store that caters to RVers and RVing, or an RV dealer or manufacturer, the evaluations/reviews of their products or of their own willingness to stand by their products and make things right for the consumers that have trusted them with the purchase of their products, always serve to warn or positively/negatively influence other RVers, and likewise the manufacturers and distributors.
In our last POST we told you we would continue to UPDATE you as to our issues with KEYSTONE and their willingness to honor their warranty and 'fix' the issues that were deficient in their product.
As last stated, since bringing our new baby home, we found another issue as well as all the others identified in that post. This last issue was a water leak from the roof coming through the rear A/C and A/C vent into the living room. Given that this new problem was not going to solve itself and most likely would not wait until we could take it to Keystone Service Center in Goshen IN. So far the leak produced about 1 cup of water in a light rainstorm that lasted about 2 hours. When the heavier rainstorms of summer come, who knows what kind of leak or damage would occur. So we decided that we needed to take care of this problem right away and hopefully Keystone would agree and pay us back for our expense to do so. We used a local 28-year experienced, Certified Master RV Technician, Bob Zilka (Doctor RV in Star Valley )
To avoid any further damage, Bob came out right away (May 13th), while we were in Idaho Falls (Idaho) for a dentist appointment. We left the RV open for him because he is very trust-worthy. If you are in Star Valley in Wyoming (between Alpine and Afton), feel free to give him a call. We will always call back and will accommodate 'emergencies or people 'traveling through on a tight schedule'.
When we got back from Idaho Falls, he said he fixed it none too soon as it was raining here. He used an umbrella to keep the rain from going into the RV, as he had to lift out the rear A/C, because as he stated it, it was not correctly installed by the factory. There is a hole where the A/C sits in and two hose holes (one for the intake and one for the cold air out). He said when he took the cover off, he could see into the inside of the RV because the A/C was not set into the hole correctly and the two smaller holes the gaskets were not correctly installed either. So he fixed it, installed it correctly and sealed the hoses and gaskets. We have had three other rainstorms in the past week (one a strong one)… absolutely NO LEAKS. Now, hopefully Keystone will pay us back for our necessary expense, given it was due to their factory techs screw up, but whether they do or not, we were not going to let their bad quality damage our RV further.
Not knowing that Bob would have been able to come out that soon, the day before, on May 12, 2022, we wrote to The Keystone RV Customer Service (Owner Relations) trying to see what might be the procedure to take our RV back to them in Goshen IN, since the dealer Camping World did not live up to their promises to take care of the issues with our RV before delivery. They offered for us to take it back to them 'later', but they are in Idaho Falls, ID (91 miles away from our home) which at 8mpg on our diesel F350 would cost us 23 gals of diesel at $5.95/gal now... $136.85, all because they LIED to us about having fixed it in those 3 days we gave them after buying it. One of the issues is a warped door, which would best be handled at the Keystone RV Customer Service Center in Goshen, rather than the dealer having to order one and then wait until they get it. Below ids the EMAIL we sent to them at their 'Owner Relations' email contact address they offered on their website...
to ownerrelations@keystonerv.com
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May 12, 2022
Attention Keystone Customer Service To whom it may concern,
We recently (03/28/2022) purchased a leftover NEW 2021 Keystone Montana 3812MS Fifth Wheel (VIN 4YDF38120M4704484) at Camping World of Idaho Falls, ID. There were several issues on it that needed fixing, which our salesman promised that they would fix them before we took delivery. So we left it with them for 3 days, until 03/31/2022, and then only until then, because they pressured us to take delivery by the end of the month, but assured us that all repairs would be done. They LIED.
On the delivery date (03/31/2022) they rushed us through the closing process and had the RV parked in their parking lot ready to just pull out with it, and the salesman said that his tech would show us how to hook up the fifth wheel (our very first one, as we have always had diesel pusher before it) so we could be on our way, while he attended to another delivery he had at the same time. Lo and behold it was not until we arrived at home with it and set it up and opened it up, that we noticed that they had fixed absolutely NOTHING of all the issues reported to them, and had NOT even detailed it, as they said they would do inside. There was still glue or sealer stuck on the tiles, sawdust all over the wardrobe and cabinet floors, the valance still had the scratches on it, the door handles still scratched where they apparently were banging on another door's handle, and other issues, PLUS the entry door would not close securely for two reasons, 1) it is bowed (touches at the top and bottom of the doorway, but is about 1/2" separated from the doorway in the center, so the only way to close it is to slam it hard. Even so, 2) the latch striker plate was installed too low, so the door latch hit the plate outside the hole. The striker plate had to be moved higher so the latch would go into the slot. I had to take care of this myself, in order to be able to lock the door, even half-assed, as to raise the striker plate any higher would leave the screw hole exposed. However, there is still the issue of the door bowed (or warped) which requires slamming the door to close it. The issue with the valance in the hallway across from the bathroom door is that as the door fully opens, it rubs on the valance scratching it. Also that door swings all the way fully open and the handle hits the other door (closet/cabinet), scratching it.
Now, while parked on our lot (without having moved it since bringing it home, and not having even loaded it with anything, following a rain shower, the next day we discovered a water leak coming out of the driver-side rear A/C vent (apparently coming from the rear A/C area). As we said, we haven't even tried the plumbing or shower to know if there are any other problems there.
When I confronted the salesman about all these issues that he promised to fix before we took delivery, he said "Oh, well the tech was supposed to tell you that we had ordered a whole new bathroom door and we'll replace it when it gets here". I explained the problem is with the valance, not the door, as a smaller door would not fit right, so she said "OK so we'll order a new valance too." So I asked how it's going to be installed when it gets to them, and he said "You'll have to bring the RV back to us." It is a 100 mile trip each way , which with my F350 at 8 miles/gal, would cost us 25 gals of diesel at about $5/gal, that's $125 round-trip, all because they would not fulfill their end of our agreement. So he said to us, "OK, IF you are going to be so HARD-HEADED about it, I will take the door, valance and hardware and go to your house and install it myself." NO, that's not an option either. First I would not have anyone so rude over to my house, and as he is not a technician, he could void my warranty. I would rather take the RV to the Keystone Service Center during a trip to your area, so that way nothing has to be ordered and can be corrected by the people who know how to do it right.
We are www.RoughingItGently.com and maintain a blog of our travels with recommendations and warnings of good and bad products and services during our travels. If you go to our website, you will see the negative reviews that Camping World RV Sales earned from us, as well as a view of our purchased NEW 2021 Keystone Montana 3812MS. Despite our negative impression of Camping World, as your dealer, our impression of the Keystone Montana 3812MS RV (despite being a Thor product) is still a good one. ALL RVs have initial issues which need to be addressed, so we don't fault you for having them as well. The difference between a good and bad impression comes from the willingness of the manufacturer or dealer to fix the issues that are deficient, as agreed. In that your dealer was delinquent, whereas hopefully you will not be as well. We are no giants, but do have over 40,000 followers to our blog, internationally.
So, since we are planning a Fall (November 2022) trip up to your neck of the woods (near Elkhart-Goshen), we would rather take it to your Service Center and let you do the repairs correctly, as we have no faith in Camping World or most RV dealerships, who just have excuses telling us how bad the factory is. Would we need to arrange an appointment for that, and if so how far in advance should we call and who should we call.
QUESTION: In the meantime, we will be upgrading the RV with a Cummins-Onan LP 5500w generator (through Bill Bergstrom, Bill's Service and Repairs LLC, a Cummins Onan dealer in Loveland CO), a Traveler Dish satellite, solar panels and an Inverter with four 6V batteries, plus a Furrion Vision S 5" Monitor (3 camera wireless RV Backup System). Can you give us some recommendations as to size/capacity/rating and specs you would recommend for the solar panels and inverter for this unit?? We will do mostly campgrounds but may occasionally boondock as well.
We know and have used a Certified Master RV Technician named Bob Zilka (RV Doctor, in Thayne WY) on previous rigs for warranty work with Fleetwood. Is he authorized to do warranty work for Keystone as well?
While searching online, we could not find much information as to a Keystone Service Center, to fix New Warranty Issues that escaped the factory's Quality Control, though while we have never had a 5th wheel before (all were diesel pushers) we would imagine that you do have one, like all other manufacturers. So if you could direct us as to who we need to contact and their contact information, we would be glad to call them. You can also call us to enlighten us and answer our questions.
Thanking you in advance for your assistance,
Guillermo (Bill) Garcia-Godoy
and Mary Thronson Olson
30 Last Chance Circle 7337
Star Valley Ranch, WY 83127
Cell: 352-233-0351 Bill
Cell: 321-271-7465 Mary
TODAY is May 23, 2022. In the last 11 days we have received NO CONTACT from KeystoneRV.com. NOTHING... not even an acknowledgement of our contact, which does not speak very well of them. But then, they are a part of the THOR family, so everything negative we have heard and experienced of THOR Ind., must be true perhaps we should have heeded it. On the other hand, if you are looking for a Class A (especially a diesel pusher), we can earnestly recommend Fleetwood RV. Those folks stand behind their products. Tiffin Motorhomes (Phaeton, our last diesel-pusher), once a very prominent and quality product, has also fallen by the way side, but then Bob Tiffin also sold his company to Thor Industries last year. Isn't it funny how that works? Thor keeps buying quality companies to improve their image, but no sooner they take over a quality manufacturer, the manufacturer's quality takes a dump.
IF you are looking to buy an RV, Buyer Beware of Keystone RV. No need to ask about a Warranty because apparently they don't seem to honor it, which would explain all the 2-3 stars on their reviews as to Warranty. Even though we are willing to take the RV to them at their Service Center, they won't even take the time to respond to my communication.
We will keep trying to contact them, even if we have to go to their Main Office go to see someone starting at the bottom and asking to see the next one above that person, until we get to someone who gives a damn. Or maybe we'll have to go to a News service and taking it more PUBLIC.
In the meantime, since we have a following of over 40,000 viewers who check out our website, we'll keep reporting our experiences to our readers. We are not paid for our reviews and call them the way we experience them. A good review is good, because the product, manufacturer, warranty or whatever the issue is, just because it is. A negative review is bad for the same reasons. You are free to contact us with any questions you may have or comments as to our reviews, at roughingitgently@gmail.com
We look forward to your visit on our next post. Happy trails!
UPDATE December 30, 2022
We have become so disillusioned with this KEYSTONE product (Montana 3812MS) that we have opted to trade out of it for another diesel pusher motor home. We had been warned that KEYSTONE is a THOR product, and from past experience with Thor we should have paid heed to them and ourselves. THOR SUCKS, as does KEYSTONE. They build a shoddy product that does not stand up to the elements and it is ieasy to understand why they won't provide their own warranty service... because if they did they would be swamped, constantly.
IF you are considering buying a Keystone product, or ANY THOR product, don't complain when you wish you had paid attention to this warning, because it will be your own doing (and undoing). You have been warned. That is all we can do.
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