Continuing from the last post...
We originally came up with the idea of getting a 'used' but late model Class C or small Class A (GAS) motorhome and researching the ones that seem to have the least maintenance issues, so we have narrowed it down to a few possibilities, but quickly discarded then due to 1. the spaces were too small (after being used to a 44 foot diesel pusher), 2. most had only a Queen sized bed and we have always had a King (homes, motorhomes, etc.), 3. the features and amenities on class C's are what we sought. Next was possibly a small gas Class A (30' to 33') because our driveway is 34 feet long. Our house is on an inside corner, so we have no curbing/front lawn to speak of in the front of the house, other than the concrete driveway, which is 25 feet full width. We are allowed to park a motorhome on our driveway (or in front of our house (if there was room without overlapping in front of a neighbor's house), so we are limited to the 3-day parking restriction on our driveway, to load and unload it when preparing to leave in it or upon our return to unload it.
So, an Entegra Odyssey XL or Vision XL or the Esteem (29' - 31') OR a Newmar class A Bay Star (31-34 feet). After careful consideration of these RVs on paper and online, we decided that since we have been wanting to travel to Wyoming to visit our friends there, we should also make appointments to visit BOTH the Newmar and the Entegra factory tours (which are less than 50 miles from each other in Indiana (Middlebury and Nappanee) so we figured we would extend that trip to go visit the Entegra and Newmar factories. Plus Mary wanted to exercise the Explorer, so we drove 5,985 miles round trip.
Newmar is more expensive but by far apparently a better built RV. Entegra is owned by Jayco who in turn is owned by THOR (the Death Star). Entegra gas class A coaches are all built in the JAYCO plant in Middlebury Indiana. The Entegra Class A diesel coaches are ALL built in the Tiffin Motorhomes facility in Red Bay, Alabama. So, not only does the Tiffin facility have to build and service all their own, but now they have to build and service all Entegra diesels coaches as well. The same is true for the Entegra Class A coaches, having to compete with ALL the Jayco products. Can we say that such seems to be a recipe for disaster and no wonder how errors can occur, one coach on the line being a Jayco Class C, and the next one being a Jayco Class A, and the next one being an Entegra class A and the next on an Entegra Class C or Class B, etc. This comingling of products and sharing of factories seems a popular operation for all THOR coaches, and does not surprise us why the THOR products all have such a poor reputation of their workmanship and issues to have to fix after the fact.
We have not seen how the Entegra Diesel Motorhomes are built at the Tiffin plant now, but we suspect it is similar to the Entegra Gas Class As and Cs at the Jayco plant. The JAYCO factory, has no major "Entegra" designation and seemingly is no more than an after thought in that place. When we toured the factory there may have been 10 - 15 Entegras on the line compared to well over 200 Jaycos. When we asked them what the "Dry Weight was on any given model, all we got was 'mumbo jumbo' as to why there was no way they could determine that, because they can all differ by as much as 200 pounds, even though that is an essential figure to determine how much weight they can carry and tow. Newmar, by contrast, not only has no problem disclosing the Dry (or Unloaded) Weight of an RV with the standard features of each model, but they actually even publish it on their brochures. Therefore, we 'mox-nixed' the thought of owning an Entegra, which like anything THOR has a hand in on, does not seem to measure up to a worthwhile investment.. Entegra does have a TWO YEAR Bumper to Bumper Warranty vs Newmar's only 1 year, but seeing the way the Newmars are made in their factory, we feel more assured with a Newmar with just ONE year warranty than with an Entegra with TWO. We have also narrowed it to either a model Bay Star 3114 or a Bay Star 3225, which is the same as the 3114 but with a slide on the dinette, which opens up the social area and aligns the TV more directly in front of the theater seats. The 3114 is 31'-11" long with a Dry Weight of 20,050, a GVWR of 26,000 lbs and GCWR of 30,000 lbs; and the 3225 is 32'-11" long with a Dry Weight of 21,450, a GVWR of 26,000 lbs and GCWR of 30,000 lbs. The 'toad' (2023 Ford Ranger Lariat Super Crew FX4) weighs 4,300 lbs The way this works is that despite the hitch being rated for 5,000 lbs. it technically cannot tow 5,000 lbs, because the difference between the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) and the GCWR (Gross COMBINED Weight Rating (RV + Toad weight) is only 4,000 lbs. (GCWR less GVWR). This means that technically the Ford F-53 Chassis that this motorhome is built on being rated for 26,000 lbs (with a full tank of fuel and all included lubricants), so one can only load it with a maximum of 5,950 lbs (3114) or 4,550 lbs (3225). IF one intends to tow a vehicle behind the RV, it can tow (flat or on a trailer) 4,000 lbs, including the base weight of the toad and 500 lbs of "tongue wight (10% of the tow hitch rating). So technically one can only tow a vehicle that weighs 3,500 lbs (difference between GCWR less GVWR, less the tongue weight (so, 30,000 - 26,000 - 500 lbs). However, since our 'toad' weights 4,300 lbs with a full tank of gas, and perhaps may carry 200 lbs of gear on it, so say 4,500, it is 500 lbs above the 4,000 lbs difference between the GCWR and GVWR, even though within the 5,5000 lbs hitch rating. So, this is still able to meet the ratings by "borrowing from Peter to pay Paul", so to speak, by reducing the amount of Payload weight that can be put on the motorhome itself, by 500 lbs, as it will still be within the 5,000 lb trailer hitch. So the 5,950 lbs on the 3114, (or 4,550 lbs on the 3225) can each be reduced by 500 lbs, and still allow 4,950 on the 3114 and 3,550 on the 3225 of payload.
The similar compared Entegra models (Vision XL 31ul and Vision XL 34G, by contrast can only tow 4,000 lbs and there is no way to know how many pounds of payload (weight of cargo) it can be loaded with, because Entegra does not say what its Dry Weight is. Their engineers say to look at the yellow Tag on an RV, as it lists the 'dry weight' on it, but that's not the point, as to consider one model over another I have to have an RV physically on hand to see the yellow tag. Whereas Newmar provides it on their brochures.
That aside, I did look at an Entegra at General RV and noted it's dry weight. Using it in the calculation it showed me that the allowable cargo (payload) allowed is only about 1/2 of what the Newmars are. So what is the difference (apart from a Thor product vs an Entegra product? The difference is the chassis that the RV is built on. There are different chassis systems used, such as the Spartan, chassis, the Freightliner XC/SLChassis. Most Gas Class A motorhomes are built on the Ford F-53 Motorhome Stripped Chassis, which have been used to build motorhomes for years and years. However, there is no one single Ford F-53 chassis. There are several with varying GVWRs ranging from 16,000 lbs. to 26,000 lbs. So why are the Entegras limited as to the Payload (and why does Entegra NOT want to disclose their Dry Weights)... BECAUSE the ENTEGRAS are built on some of the lowest rated GVWR F-53 Chassis. The 31ul and the 34G both use a 22,000 lbs. rated GVWR chassis, with a 26,000 lbs. GCWR, which by contrast is Newmar's Bay Star 's smallest (the 3114) GVWR, with a GCWR of 30,000 lbs.
In addition to the above, we learned that the Entegras only have 2 house batteries, while the Bay Star line has 6 house batteries. Enough said, as far as we are concerned. The NEWMAR won, hands down. So we disqualified Entegra and will get a Newmar. Of course, now the question is which Newmar? The Bay Star 3114 or the 3225?. We'll have to find a dealer that has BOTH models available so we can see them side by side, to decide. There is also the issue of that the 2027 comes with Starlink already installed in it, as a standard feature, whereas the 2026 does not. I suppose we can always add a Starlink Mini, which is a Roaming & Motion system to a 2026, but there are also some other benefits to the 2027. However, the 2026 does offer an additional $10,000 DISCOUNT on 2026 models sold by November 15, 2026, on top of their negotiated sales price for being a 2026 model. Otherwise we'll get the 2027 model. We shall see.
Another model we liked is the Bay Star 3626, which compares more to the Entegra Vision XL 34G, includes a Washer/Dryer Combo and a little more pantry space. However, due to its length of 36-11", it is way too big to fit on our driveway, where as both other models will fit, as our driveway is 34 feet long, and we are allowed to keep the motorhome parked on our driveway for up to 3 days upon returning and on preparing to leave on a trip. Being that our house is on a n inside corner, we have no room to park it on the street. So regrettably we had to pass on the Bay Star 3626, and will simply have to take our laundry to a laundry every now and then. But then, it's only for 4-5 months out of the year, while we travel.
Following are the two models we are considering of the Newmar brand and their specs. The third one we had to disqualify due to its length. ALL are built on a Ford F-53 chassis, and powered by a Ford 7.3L V-8 Gas Engine (the "Godzilla" engine) with 335HP and 468 lb/ft Torque and a Ford TorqShift 6-speedAutomatic (6R140 Transmission with an Axle Ratio of 6.14, and Michelin 22.5" wheels/tires, and 25 gallons of Propane.
No comments:
Post a Comment